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 LE PENDV - XII CARD.

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PostSubject: LE PENDV - XII CARD.   Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:24 pm

a - I am convinced that any card must be watch by itself.
TdM is an structure compound by a numbered sequence.So numbers place a card related to others on a sequence without any possibility to change the order of them.
I see as the cards show that numbers are additive so not by subtraction (as Roman numbering way ).As a result be have IIII not IV / VIIII not IX / XIIII not XIV / XVIIII not XIX .

b - Is as if each fourth or ninth cards ( IIII-VIIII-XIIII-XVIIII ) are not related to the next cards ( V - X - XV - XX )
They show us an a " Stop " not a bridge to the next card as I see.
c- So the sequence for me is as it follow:

I - II - III - IIII // V = Bridge to the next row

VI - VII - VIII - VIIII // X = Bridge to the next row

XI - XII - XIII - XIIII // XV = Bridge to the next row

XVI - XVII - XVIII - XVIIII // XX = Bridge to the next car,the conclusion of the trip.

XX : Where we arrived...

c- So the number four is a depiction of conclusion ( I will talk about it when I begin my pips threads ) and five is a new beginning ( a bridge ) as all the odd numbers.

***********************************************************************************************

- LE PENDV :

1- The second card of the third row that began at X card.
2-So we have X as a door that if we really "entered " we must face LA FORCE (XI ) // (Ahead I will only refer to the cards as numbers for a practical sense,but I will return to the name if it worth it ).
If we can t be able to open the jaws of the Noblet lioness so we must return to the X card.
-If we can that suppose we can control ours energy on the three levels:Physically,Emotionally and Mentally.
If we can not simply we can not be able to sustain the higher energy of the Great Soul,the "Anima Mundi" the sum of the totally of the Souls here on earth.
3-That is why the figure at XII card is hanged.
He has to support the work to return the energy of us to it s divine source "through his body".
He is hanged because he is tied to a major work that he has not decision because he "choose" it after left X card and proved his force at XI.
He decided to work for others...
4-I we compares Noblet,Dodal and Conver versions we see that on Noblet and Dodal the arms and hands are not tied so contrary to Conver.Noblet and Dodal has a somewhat of wings ?
That on Dodal the figure is tied to no where (Can this let us to place it reversed ? / It is a case of levitation ? )
That on Conver the figure is properly tied by his hands.
That on Dodal ( 1710-1715 ) and Conver( 1760 ) the posts have the same six curdled branches.So contrary to Noblet.
5-How can explain said that differences,if Noblet and Dodal are themselves between 50 years and Conver 50 from both,such incongruity ?
-For more Noblet and Dodal called the card LE PENDV instead of Conver that called it LE PENDU.
Im a not ignoring 100 years passed by,but what about the crossed similarities and here I add the jacket between Dodal and Conver and different form Noblet.
6-With Stella on another thread we were talking about the symbols of Jupiter and Saturn.
Well,here we have as I see the Saturn symbol: A Cross ( Both legs crossed ) above the Soul (specially clear on Dodal card ).
-So is a card of sacrifice.
He as a conscious voluntary assume the work so the sacrifice to "reverse" his place here on earth and use his body (the four crossed legs) placed to the divine origin,with his left leg attracting the energy ( he is no longer attracting as us the energy from the earth) for adjust it to do not harm to us.
-He is downloading divine energy for us each day...
-Who is him ?
-Many Masters as Buddah and the highest of them all : Christ (Not Jesus)
They all along with many higher Masters each day are trying that energies coming strong from above don harm us too much...
7-LE PENDV is one of us that reached the stage of the X card and instead of want to save him he choose to help us.
BTW: His penis is pointing to the sky so to God,that because his energy is now working for another "cause".
So not for here on an ours sense.

eugim


Last edited by eugim on Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: LE PENDV - XII CARD.   Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:42 pm

Warning: Kabbalistic rambling ahead, and it's not fully finished yet. So please don't take it for more than it's worth.

In La Force, we see generosity and grace. Bear with me, even though I'm detouring into kabbala-land for a moment. Part of it is real kabbala, a little bit is from what Waite tacked on, but he wasn't totally wrong about everything (just ponderous).

The Lion was the symbol of Rome. It also became the symbol of Britain. But before that, it was the Lion of Judea, and the symbol of the grace, mercy, and generosity of God unleashed.

Pretty strange symbol for Grace and Generosity, no? But let us, for a moment, stick Force in the place Waite did on the Tree of Life (I prefer the original Marseille order, but I know why he did this, too - arguments can be made for all sorts of validity).

The Force, the Lion, is in Chesed, the place where the soul-world begins. Anything above that is so abstract it's beyond what we can even try to comprehend. It's not physical yet in Chesed, but the creation of Creation as we know it starts there. Which is why Waite put a Boddhisatva on his 4 of Cups (almost everybody misses that one).

The Grace, the Generosity, the Mercy, that creates the Creation that we know is pure fire at first. Intensely sexual. And it burns in a way that burns like nuclear explosions burn, but more. Like the Big Bang burns, maybe. And it's all focussed on getting that fire to Gevurah, the place of Severity, the place of Judgement, the place where we're all found wanting.

And eventually that spark burns itself out completely, there is NOTHING left. Nothing is voluntary, nothing is conscious, nothing IS at that point. I call it remindlessness, but that's not even a proper word in English, much less any other language, but it's where we find Le Pendu. Everything is stripped. All of it. All of you.

I don't know what remains inside. It's like the Divine spark disappears. But without that refining, without that loss, that stripping away of all, whatever it is could never be pure enough to enter the realm of Tiferet, of the Diamond Soul, of Beauty and Harmony. And when we're down HERE - and looking up - it's Tiferet that we see as the highest ideal. For Le Pendu, he's like Creation coming down to that point.

I know it's all abstract and esoteric, and I tend to read the cards both backwards and forwards - emergence and return. Whichever way you're going, though, that total loss of self, of memory, of matter, of consciousness, even, has to happen to get to the next step. Up or down. And I think that's where I see Le Pendu in the grand scheme of things. It can be so painful - until you become nothing at all.
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PostSubject: Re: LE PENDV - XII CARD.   Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:14 pm

Chanah:
1-Qaballah was known as Dummett said more than 40 years than Tarocchi was born.
So Qaballah has no link with Tarocchi in it s origin since after Pico della Mirandola who died at 1494 brought it.
2-After the deck was brought to France so became then the TdM any evidences of Qaballah was found till now in TdM as far I know.

eugim
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PostSubject: Re: LE PENDV - XII CARD.   Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:04 pm

I think I did preface that with 'kabbalistic ramble ahead', Miguel Smile And I, too, doubt that kabbala had anything to do with the TdM. Still, the Bahir was published in the 12th century in Provence, and Moshe de Leon was writing the Zohar not too long after that in Cordoba.

So Mirandola wasn't the first. I'm not sure he was even the first Christian, but that would take a bit more research than I'm up to today.
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PostSubject: Re: LE PENDV - XII CARD.   Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:50 pm

I am agree with you Chanah...
1-Pico was not the first but really he was the first who brought to Christian world a clumsy and distorted attempt to try that jews convert them to Christianity as clearly Gershom Scholem said...
So he fully distorted Qaballah and then went far and far from his master Ficino who had clear that Qaballah has it s own deep wisdom,so Marsilio went earlier to the Neoplatonism (read Hermeticism)(as the first fathers of the Roman Church did ...) source where also Qaballah creators took information.
2-You are right.Qaballah born as early as XII century in Spain and then spread to Provence.
It was at Arab occupation of Spain since mid 700 years that they grown an immense culture there with the mix of they and the jews and the cristians.
They found at Cordoba the first university in Europe along with the one at Sicily in Italy at the same time.
All that cultures mixed in peace and tolerance until 1492 when the Pope encouraged (order best said) the King of Spain "To clean Spain of Jews" and fire Arabs from Spain.
The king did,Arabs gone away,Jews spread to the four corners of Europe and of course to Italy where Pico lived even he earlier took notice about Qaballah.
Since him to Eliphas Levi (who called LE MAT as Shin ? ? ? ) a long caravan of misunderstood began...
-For example in TdM we have 22 cards but of them we have one named and unnumbered (LE MAT) and other numbered but unnamed (XIII)
(Noblet of course named the XIII card).
So I see no correspondence with the 22 letters of Hebrew alphabet.


-And please (not you of course) ...
Leave Qaballah in peace and don t distort is again as Pico did !!!
-Don t be another Madonna who "used" it and then throw to the rubbish when she felt bored ...

Till the next Chanah ...


Last edited by eugim on Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: LE PENDV - XII CARD.   Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:36 pm

1-Of course another and more current so closest to ours day by day reality is to read this card as a supposed world around us reversed,when to be honest to us we did that decision...
We decided to did a "harsh" change even if ti was not conscious.
We fired out ours spouse and changed the lock of the door or changed ours visions about ours friends and family.
-So ours whole words is "reversed" since then.
Surely we feel that confused closed "bridge".
2-But what happen when the situation is reversed ?
So you are the spouse fired out or the friend who received a harsh answer from your best ?
-That also you are "reversed" but there is a single difference...
In the first you choose,you made a decision.
In the second not and you are a victim (only if you feel like that... )
3-That drives me to two topics here:
a- The reversal placement of the cards: For me doesn t exists.
b- That each card of the sequence has two reading so a counterpart.
* One of ours closest day by day world around and the other from ours innermost side where begin and born all ours reality situations,because they are absolutely children of ours IMAGINATION .
But please we all must be careful because ours energy create the present-future here and now aside ours "conscious" intention on it.

-Ours minds create ours reality each minute and this minute for instance is the consequence of a prior one thought.

eugim
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PostSubject: Re: LE PENDV - XII CARD.   Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:14 pm

Chanah wrote:

The Force, the Lion, is in Chesed, the place where the soul-world begins. Anything above that is so abstract it's beyond what we can even try to comprehend. It's not physical yet in Chesed, but the creation of Creation as we know it starts there. Which is why Waite put a Boddhisatva on his 4 of Cups (almost everybody misses that one).

Shocked
I did.
Where?

This is so awesome....

Quote :

And eventually that spark burns itself out completely, there is NOTHING left. Nothing is voluntary, nothing is conscious, nothing IS at that point. I call it remindlessness, but that's not even a proper word in English, much less any other language, but it's where we find Le Pendu. Everything is stripped. All of it. All of you.

I don't know what remains inside. It's like the Divine spark disappears. But without that refining, without that loss, that stripping away of all, whatever it is could never be pure enough to enter the realm of Tiferet, of the Diamond Soul, of Beauty and Harmony. And when we're down HERE - and looking up - it's Tiferet that we see as the highest ideal. For Le Pendu, he's like Creation coming down to that point.

That's stone gorgeous.

Quote :

I know it's all abstract and esoteric, and I tend to read the cards both backwards and forwards - emergence and return. Whichever way you're going, though, that total loss of self, of memory, of matter, of consciousness, even, has to happen to get to the next step. Up or down. And I think that's where I see Le Pendu in the grand scheme of things. It can be so painful - until you become nothing at all.


Kind of like Void?

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PostSubject: Re: LE PENDV - XII CARD.   Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:57 pm

Ooh yeah. The worlds of chaos and void - tohu v' bohu are big in kabbala - and in the Jewish bible. The Christian one kind of skips over that and all the worlds that were created before this one was. I think in the Christian text it goes something like 'the world was formless and void'? Not sure.

The void was caused by the tzimtzum - the contraction of God so that there could be room for something to exist. It's still all filled with God, but it couldn't have come into being without the Void, without the divine light dimming down some - and worlds upon worlds upon worlds were created until there was one where humans could live. Hence all the not being able to look upon the face of God and live - the light was too bright. Even the angels - who are kind of literary devices for 'messages from God' in Judaic literature. Ever notice that most - not all - but most of the times in the Tanakh when people see an angel it's pretty much: Oh shit, we just saw an angel, we're all gonna die!

Too much divine light - humans aren't wired for that kind of amperage on a sustained basis.

I still haven't completely wrapped my head around it either. But that whole 'let there be light' was the part where the world was finally appropriate for humans, and the (somewhat filtered) light shone forth through the void.

The Boddhisatva is the guy on the card itself. Look at his pose. I suppose one could argue that he's actually bored silly, but given what did Waite know of kabbala and eastern religions, I'm thinking not. The deck is predominantly Christian, make no mistake, but every now and again you see a hand mudra or a pose like the one on the 4 Cups, or a few other things and just have to laugh in delight. Which is probably why I can still enjoy it.
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PostSubject: Re: LE PENDV - XII CARD.   Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:14 pm

Chanah wrote:
Ooh yeah. The worlds of chaos and void - tohu v' bohu are big in kabbala - and in the Jewish bible.

That's interesting. I was reading something Verthaine wrote not long ago about how the opposite of order isn't chaos, it's disorder, and Chaos is order and disorder in the non-dual state, everything comes from Chaos. And someone said, "Well, then what's the opposite of Chaos?" and the answer was "Void."

Quote :

The Christian one kind of skips over that and all the worlds that were created before this one was. I think in the Christian text it goes something like 'the world was formless and void'? Not sure.

Yeah, "Void and without form", something like that.

Quote :

The void was caused by the tzimtzum - the contraction of God so that there could be room for something to exist. It's still all filled with God, but it couldn't have come into being without the Void, without the divine light dimming down some - and worlds upon worlds upon worlds were created until there was one where humans could live.

That's beautiful.

Quote :
Hence all the not being able to look upon the face of God and live - the light was too bright. Even the angels - who are kind of literary devices for 'messages from God' in Judaic literature. Ever notice that most - not all - but most of the times in the Tanakh when people see an angel it's pretty much: Oh shit, we just saw an angel, we're all gonna die!
\

Yeah, they get terrified!

Except for the time that the angels came to see Lot. Rolling Eyes

Quote :

Too much divine light - humans aren't wired for that kind of amperage on a sustained basis.

Moses coming back with his hair all white...

Quote :

I still haven't completely wrapped my head around it either. But that whole 'let there be light' was the part where the world was finally appropriate for humans, and the (somewhat filtered) light shone forth through the void.

I don't think we're supposed to be able to wrap our heads completely around these things.
They'd be mundane then.

Quote :
The Boddhisatva is the guy on the card itself. Look at his pose. I suppose one could argue that he's actually bored silly, but given what did Waite know of kabbala and eastern religions, I'm thinking not. The deck is predominantly Christian, make no mistake, but every now and again you see a hand mudra or a pose like the one on the 4 Cups, or a few other things and just have to laugh in delight. Which is probably why I can still enjoy it.


Thanks for that!

Yeah, there's enough ambiguity to the images to keep it interesting.

There's a story making the rounds that Waite gave Pixie free rein with the Minors....

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