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 XVIII - LA LVNE- Part one

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PostSubject: XVIII - LA LVNE- Part one   Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:49 am

1-Just for me is better a Sun eclipse so not a moon.
I discussed this with JDM at ATF even he was not agree.
But I am convinced strongly...
2-If one are agree that TdM iconography has it closest ancestor on Cary Sheet so just see the depiction of the moon there.
3-Then compares the colour pattern between this card and LE SOLEIL with Noblet or Conver deck.
Just see the red and yellow of both in common...
4-Sun as a life depiction.
Moon as the " degree of life" denied.
5-The degree of life denied.
Why ?
6-Just see the attempt of the dogs trying to eat " life "
One is skin coloured on the left and the other of the right is pale blue.
But something happened and the "light" of ours life " suddenly" went away ...
-What happened ?
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PostSubject: Re: XVIII - LA LVNE- Part one   Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:13 am

You make a good point, I think. It's best not to be stuck on a "traditional" interpretation, especially when nobody really knows what the traditional interpretation is. Better to keep the doors open. sunny

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PostSubject: Re: XVIII - LA LVNE- Part one   Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:14 pm

-Thanks Stella (Star) ...

1-Here is a good opportunity I think for distinguish what is a personal vision of a card,a psychological vision,a poetic vision or a "that is what the card depict for me so for the rest of you " vision. (ATF perspective ... )
I mean distinguish what the card show for itself.
So not what we want conscious or unconscious that the card depict.
Once one sustained a personal vision with visual elements then only then others can begin to think about it more seriously...
Let me have some fun here ...

* If all the cards are self referenced so will we have millions of TdM decks around the world...
Isn it ?
eugim TdM,Stella TdM,Bee TdM,Hooked TdM,and so on...

-For me and I think Stella for you also the road begin at the cards not at oneself.
They have something to tell to us and then some people shut theirs mouths and use them as mirrors.
They want to see what they want to see on the cards I think.

2-I sustain that this card is a depiction of a Sun eclipse.
a-I see the green ring which separate the Sun red-yellow rays pattern as we see on LE SOLEIL.
b-The Moon is clearly pale blue not yellow nor red.
c-I see the same pale blue on the water.Is that a Sun colour depiction ?
d-Have in mind that this is the only card of the sequence " supposed" at night... (It is not a Moon ?)
Is the sky at night ?
-So another prove of the symbolism of colours found at TdM.
Why green or red or yellow or pale blue or blue or skin colour ?
As Tchalai Unger said: Takes a colour and see where is and why on the whole sequence.
What is red ? / What is green ?
e-See you the Dodal (1710-1715) LA LVNE...
For me there is a difference:
Noblet clearly shows the Moon separate from the Sun with the green ring.
Dodal show both intermixed.But it is also a Sun eclipse no doubt for me of course.
On Noblet ( 1650 ) the moon clearly is in front of the Sun hiding it.
I know that a Sun eclipse can occurs at daylight but TdM is an allegorical visual depiction so not realist as we know it,and done more than 350 years ago.

* Surely is an impossible ( I know ) exercise to be "on the shoes" of Noblet on time and place to create or recreate a "theater of the life" even he was not the first TdM creator...

2-Did you see the many examples of pairs we found till now with this two dogs at the Tdm sequence beginning with the VI card ?
-Which colour have all them ?
-Which are theirs position ?
-Always there is a third figure closing a triangle ?
3-Here if I think that this card is very "life denied" (sorry for my lack of words friend ... ) show a very incredible example of the two triangles intermixed of macro and micro:
a-Moon-two dogs.
b-Two dogs-Crab
A rhombus as two funnels put them closest from theirs beak downloading energies from above to below.
An X ... (Again yes. )

4-How walks a Crab ? / So linked for me as how much ours Moon (past not seen,not want to see) hide ours present-future (Sun).
-Simply put it on the table baby ...

*Which is the next card if we have the "guts" to face it ???

-Sorry for the words Madam...
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PostSubject: Re: XVIII - LA LVNE- Part one   Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:10 pm



Could very easily be a solar eclipse. The sky isn't dark, and why IS that green ring there if it ISN'T an eclipse?

Eclipses make things feel a little "off", and that's definitely an aspect of this card. That's why the RWS crowd thinks it's a card of danger and deception - it isn't,
but they're picking up on the uneasiness, IMHO.

eugim wrote:
-Thanks Stella (Star) ...

1-Here is a good opportunity I think for distinguish what is a personal vision of a card,a psychological vision,a poetic vision or a "that is what the card depict for me so for the rest of you " vision. (ATF perspective ... )

You're welcome, and yeah, that's them alright. Razz

Quote :

* If all the cards are self referenced so will we have millions of TdM decks around the world...
Isn it ?
eugim TdM,Stella TdM,Bee TdM,Hooked TdM,and so on...

jocolor I'm just imagining those.
I want R. Crumb to draw mine. pirat

Quote :

-For me and I think Stella for you also the road begin at the cards not at oneself.
They have something to tell to us and then some people shut theirs mouths and use them as mirrors.
They want to see what they want to see on the cards I think.

There's IS a mirror there,like a Rorschach test.
It's just that mirrors isn't ALL they are. And the mirror stuff should FLUID and MUTABLE and never be quite the same twice.
It should depend on the moment and the near-lying cards. That's how Eye Rhyme works. You're actually reading the back of your own
mind, IMHO. That's what's getting reflected. That's how the mirror function should work. It shouldn't be made into dogma. That's just crazy.

People who just see what they want in these usually end up making fools of themselves.

Quote :

4-How walks a Crab ? / So linked for me as how much ours Moon (past not seen,not want to see) hide ours present-future (Sun).
-Simply put it on the table baby ...

*Which is the next card if we have the "guts" to face it ???

-Sorry for the words Madam...

Don't apologize, keep it coming!

This is good stuff. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: XVIII - LA LVNE- Part one   Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:34 pm

1-All the cards of the sequence have a not colour context so not a white context.
The colour white of the cards is the part of them untouched.
So is not white as itself as a colour.
Is a depiction of a thing not materialized.
The rest of the colours are depictions of things that are physically here.
Even if some are indoors or outdoors all have a not coloured context.
So this card LA LVNE shows I think that the whole sequence occurs or take place not at ALL HERE...
So only the parts of the cards coloured.
a-Indoors: II-III-V-VIII-XV
b-Outdoors:IIII-VI-VII-VIIII to XIIII-XVI to XXI

-Examples of uncoloured parts of the cards having in mind the face and hands as a depictions of the presence of a person:
a-Hands and face: I to XII and XIIII,XVI to XVIIII
b-Hands only: XIII,XV and LE FOV
c-XX: The angel has hands and face but the at least two figures from we can see theirs faces have uncoloured faces and skin coloured hands and bodies.
The angel also has his "body" skin coloured so incarnated,so that explain to me that is a skin colour,that the faces uncoloured are a depiction of ours Spirits and the hands uncoloured are a depiction of "work" do by a divine order.
The two figures are incarnated except theirs faces.
I know we can see the face of the figure of the center but ...
-See the XIII hands...
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PostSubject: Re: XVIII - LA LVNE- Part one   Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:14 pm

Food for thought here.

Thanks!

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PostSubject: Re: XVIII - LA LVNE- Part one   Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:51 pm

-First Stella I forgot to thanks to you that you posted the card.
I ve tried before with all the threads I opened but I concluded that I am an inept with this...

* I want to be more clear with regard to my prior post,because I always regret my lack of words.

1-Mirrors: Of course cards are mirrors but showing to us where are we instead of what we want cards show to us.
That is the difference for me and I think we both are agree here.
So in my prior post I wanted to remark that point even I never find the exactly words...
2-Eclipse depiction: This is a visual fact for me not a poetic depiction of the card.
Only then I study the card to find connections between the different visual fact details of the card and the begin to try to understand it.Never before.
Preconceptions about the meaning of a card based on what we read or saw at forums is the worst way for me.
Just try to see the card as a new born...
As we found an unknown deck at a lost island that nobody know...
You have no help of books or forums.
Only you have two eyes and your degree of perception and intuition.

* For me that card is a Sun eclipse and is a depiction of deceive of others and self deceive or both at the same time.
The full moon hide the sun the light of the life,the life itself on a sunny day.
Both dogs think that is night when is not.They are trying to eat the last "drops of life " from the sun.
Both are thinking that is "the end of the world".
The moon has a face with an expression of deceive as she was not hiding the sun...

-Just for me is very suggestive that the next card is LE SOLEIL...
Of course if we cross this bridge of deceive or self deceive (the same at the end conscious or not )

-I made a mistake on a paragraph on my prior post:
I wanted to say that "I know we can not see the face of the figure at the center but..."

Sorry
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PostSubject: Re: XVIII - LA LVNE- Part one   Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:53 am

eugim wrote:
-First Stella I forgot to thanks to you that you posted the card.
I ve tried before with all the threads I opened but I concluded that I am an inept with this...
Click "Gallery"
Click "users personal albums"
Click "stella"
Click the card you want in your post
Click "copy" beside "BBCode of the Picture : "
Go up to the left hand corner of the screen and click "edit" - you should get a drop-down menu
Click "copy" on the drop menu
Go back to the post you are writing and click the drop menu again
Click "paste"

Quote :

Preconceptions about the meaning of a card based on what we read or saw at forums is the worst way for me.
Just try to see the card as a new born...
As we found an unknown deck at a lost island that nobody know...
You have no help of books or forums.
Only you have two eyes and your degree of perception and intuition.


:mittens :mittens :mittens

Letting everybody stuff your head full of preconceptions is like letting Jerry Falwell tell you what the Bible means.

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PostSubject: Re: XVIII - LA LVNE- Part one   Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:14 pm

-Thanks for the help Stella...
I will try it this next weekend.
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PostSubject: Re: XVIII - LA LVNE- Part one   Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:16 pm

LONG WINDED ASSBAGGERY ITT


YUO WANNA FIX ME A DRINK?

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